§13: Benjamin Ross

Ben: Thanks for watching my music video haha~

Lars: Hi Ben, thanks for your video presentation. It was really psychedelic… I was wondering if the axial age produced figures such as Buddha, where are our prophets of technology now?

Ben: ooh that’s a great question—-and of course, as you know, the answer has to remain open-ended….why? Because in the true Axial spirit, that prophet has to be YOU … haha

Sumeyra: I wonder if axial age has a spiritual punk god or goddesses or techno-god?

Ben: This is a great question, and one that reflects what Lars asked above—I personally believe that the emphasis of the Axial Age figures was to real-ize (make real) their IDENTITY with a transcendent reality
so in some sense: you are the answer

Sumeyra: It reminds me of Mevlana Sufi transcendent reality

Jiré: right, it has something quite hypnotic

Ben: Certainly there is a Sufi connection to be made!

Sumeyra: yeah, Jiré right, hypnotic mediating

Josh: Hi Ben, Interesting talk! I do want to ask, though, whether all cyberpunk is invested the kind of “transcending finite phenomena” you talk about here. While that strain of technognosticism is certainly present, many texts push back against this, and re-center “the meat.” How do you think later cyberpunk that “returns to the body” fits into your thesis here?

Ben: Thanks so much! This is a great question—-and one way to frame it is to suggest that one “needs a body to transcend a body”.
Sort of like how one needs an ego to determine the truth of non-ego
if you can see the connection there

Sumeyra: Hi, it is a fascinating talk. I liked the techno-music

Ben: I really appreciate that! I put the visuals together first, then tried to create music that I felt tied those and the voice-over together
I wanted to make a cyberpunk La Jetee
but that’s, ya know, wishful thinking … hahaha
Also, just in general, no one uses tumblr any more other than me and Bruce Sterling, but I often post music and art there

Jiré: It is a really interesting work, the visuals are amazing. In which way do you see it to La Jetee?

Ben: Thank you so much! I suppose I would say it was imitating the style, rather than the content haha~ The voiceover/music aligned with photos rather than video—

Jiré: I see. It could be really interesting to bring it together with Chris Marker and his approach on memory I’d say. Again, it was really cool to watch this

Sumeyra: also the music and the techno-mediating talk makes that connection

Ben: That’s a great connection—and tbh I am thrilled that the way in which the material was presented resonated with you~ In some sense, too, the approach of the presentation is meant to be “hyperstition,” that is, a fiction which seeks to become real

mlex: that’s interesting, you might not need higher consciousness to move into the morphological freedom… but altered consciousness

Ben: Maybe we could say that the chakras are just another technology through which we come to recognize ourselves—-is that technology reflected in our tools today? Do we start out using stock equipment and then modify them until they become our own? Such a crafting (like all arts/techne) at the highest levels ultimately throws us back on ourselves and forces us to answer the question you just asked: WHO is the ONE using these techniques? And, of course, there is “no” answer, especially in the sense that Max Stirner expresses: “I am not nothing in the sense of emptiness, but I am the creative nothing, the nothing out of which I myself as creator create everything.” The key, as you’re aware of course, is making the transition between understanding this and embodying it–

mlex: yes. Do we start out using stock equipment and then modify them until they become our own? Such a crafting (like all arts/techne) at the highest levels ultimately throws us back on ourselves and forces us to answer the question you just asked: WHO is the ONE using these techniques?

Ben: exactly! And isn’t that what we are all doing? To me the cyberpunk/axial connection is precisely the preoccupation with appearance/reality—we want to alter our reference system above all. On this point, a book that you might really enjoy if you haven’t read it is Technic and Magic by Federico Campagna

Jiré: wow, that is indeed really interesting. so a fiction that becomes real as it is turned into art and by that becomes a memory. do you mean it like that? I like the idea to blur these distinctions

Ben: Yes! Something just like that, but you really said it better than I ever could haha–the idea is to use art, music, philosophy, fiction, and so forth not as a passive representation of something but as an active agent of transformation—-a gateway through which something novel might emerge~~~

mlex: this is the most inspiring thing I’ve ever read in the context of cyberpunk… thanks

Josh: I see the connection you are making, but it seems like there are distinctions to be made (or at least, tensions between) Buhddhist non-attachment and the strains of self-mastery and morphological freedom in transhumanist discourse.
(edit) I know there are many strains of transhumanism, but some very prominant don’t seem to be transcending the ego (cough Max More cough)

Ben: hahaha great point—and it’s very true: for the buddhist transhumanists especially, morphological freedom is often taken to be some kind of license that is meant to affirm non-self, when the opposite typically happens—it becomes yet another tool to affirm the self~ And this is wunderbar point that you’ve highlighted because it shows the danger of how the techologies we use for emancipation come to only add another set of chains—-buddhist meditation is a great example: “Oh! You don’t meditate? Well I do…” hahaha this idea of using techniques meant to challenge the sense of self and enhance nonduality often end up only entrenching it further

Josh: great way to put it!. This sounds right to me, even though I’m a curmudgeonly materialist, who thinks of the body as the instrument on which consciousness is played

Ben: Well, this may sound strange, but I often consider myself a materialist as well—-and this doesn’t necessarily contradict buddhist metaphysics, especially in terms of Nagarjuna for whom “emptiness itself must be empty to be true emptiness” haha~ The thing that really bakes our collective noodles, though, is the idea that this groundlessness might itself be a ground

mlex: glycon

Ben: Actually the snake is a really great starting point—-the imagery and the connection to such things as kundalini and so forth represents a process of ascendancy, a process one is able to undertake using the technology of one’s time

mlex: so what is the transhumanist correlate of the chakras? can we dispense with the body and have a new system of the qabala, etc? as Josh said what is the template for technognosticism when we move beyond the physical form? who are you in this vast multiverse?

Emily: Hi Benjamin – very enjoyable talk and I must say your talk had a banging beat too. I wonder if you could comment more about your suggestion that the computer is a contemplative tool. In the age of social media, it seems cyberspace has become a tool of politics, dogma, intolerance and a fashioning of, often false self-images. How does social media fit into your vision of cyberpunk as a tool of self-reflection? I think I agree with your point btw – the figure of the cyberpunk has undeniably utopian potential but I struggle to reconcile it with…well twitter…among other things

Ben: Thank you so much for your kind words! Hahaha your point about Twitter is well-taken~ And of course, when a philosopher has their back put against the wall, they must make a distinction! And we might say that there are better and worse versions of that contemplative tool, yes? The better versions enhance a nondual understanding of self/other, information/awareness, and so forth, and the worse versions only serve to make that gulf of separation even wider—the question for us, then, is to determine which tools need to incorporated and which need to opposed

Emily: I totally agree – is there a positive contemplative aspect to social media then? Or are you speaking about other virtual spaces?

Ben: We can stick to social media! To start to imagine what a positive aspect looks like, I think about the image of “Indra’s Net” in the Huayan school of Buddhism—this idea that the universe is a vast net of shining jewels, where each one reflects the entirety of the net while simultaneously itself being reflected infinitely….Indra’s Net even sounds like “Internet” doesn’t it? Haha~ This is the positive aspect of social media—where all of our conversations, reactions, memes, and gifs can be seen in their interdependence—but of course, keeping that “vision” while using social media is very difficult, and we can definitely see that in the interface—-it is designed in such a way to give you a singular presentation, rather than a holistic view—so, maybe one of the aspects of enhancing the contemplative virtues of such spaces is truly a design problem…what do you think?

Emily: How interesting! And yes, I agree social media is not designed, often, for contemplation but for quick-fire answers to complex questions. Discord however (if we count this as a form of social media) allows us to interact over vast distances and to take our time when discussing challenging topics. In some ways it’s better than face to face conversations because their isn’t the same pressure to quickly respond and I can go back and edit what I want to say to make sure I’m getting my point across. I wish all social media were like what we are experiencing right now with this conference – designed to encourage slow, careful thinking, rather than anxious, constant updates.

Ben: You are so right! That’s such a great connection—that anxiousness comes from the speed, and also I think the desire to portray oneself as something and try to SHOW THAT YOU HAVE THE ANSWER hahaha—this goes back to your mention of Twitter! Twitter is largely removed from the idea of having a conversation, and much more dedicated to the idea of outsmarting each other, or “winning” an argument haha~ Call it what you want, “virtue signalling” and so forth—all of those concepts point to the same idea: using someone as a means to make a point, rather than seeing them as an ends to engage in communication

Emily: Absolutely – it’s very much about having the last word. It also represents a contradiction because tweets are made in order to be commented on but only a like or an affirmation of some kind is actually acceptable. It becomes the virtual equivalent of stirring up a mob and any dissenting voices are rooted out. But that is also why it’s so popular – it allows people to vast amounts of uncritical self-affirmation. I suppose that is the issue – unquestioning self-affirmation vs true, self-critical thought.

Alexander:
Just chiming in to say Discord’s current primary platform is advertising itself towards videogame players, and so it is designed around facilitating useful and easy conversation while something else is typically being done (playing games). Discord has monetisation pathways that don’t rely on constant engagement with the application. As many have pointed out , Twitter’s primary goal is to continue algorithmically generated scrolling, and it’s design will never be a good one I fear.